Stephen A. speaks in stanzas, extemporaneous and emphatic, his verses peppered with Smithisms and triumphant declarations about the world according to Smith. It’s lyrical, melodious, but there’s a looping trajectory to his answers, too, and any question is clearance for takeoff. Ask him about a famous joke tweet where he’s talking to a P.F. Chang’s waiter, and you'll get a stunning soliloquy about his life lived as the man in the arena, the one whose talk the others chatter about. He’s right, of course: ESPN’s $12 million man is a titan of the entertainment world, not unlike the athletes he covers and comments on, an attraction in and of himself. At a Knicks playoff game last year, I watched him walk out onto the press box terrace to a raucous greeting from the Madison Square Garden crowd—an acknowledgement that he was well and truly a part of the spectacle.
These days, he’s pretty much everywhere. Stephen A. Smith is in a car on his way to the airport when I catch up with him. He’s leaving New York. He mentions he was just in L.A. He’s also nearly always on-air. He’s got a two-hour live show every morning on ESPN, First Take, which he’ll happily remind you is top of the ratings charts. Smith is a panelist on NBA Countdown and a frequent guest on SportsCenter, popping up all over the map for the worldwide leader in sports.
Recently, though, Smith has begun to train his gaze beyond the Xs and Os, and even Kyrie Irving’s latest shenanigans. It’s not just that he’ll sound off on Colin Kaepernick or league vaccine policies—that is, politics and culture rooted in sports. He loves ESPN, he says, but he also wants a professional life outside of strict sports coverage. He’s got thoughts on crime, sure, but more than that, he’s refused to rule out running for public office. The latest stage in this metamorphosis is a new podcast he’s launching with Audacy's Cadence13, Know Mercy with Stephen A. Smith, where he’ll talk issues beyond the game, while occasionally dabbling in sports talk. After we spoke, his first string of guests was announced: Snoop Dogg, Sue Bird, Chris Cuomo, LL COOL J, and Sean Hannity. In a conversation below edited for length and clarity, he laid out what the listening public can expect to hear on Stephen A.’s wide world of non-sports.
I guess my first question would be, how did you find the time for another show?
Well, I don't view it as having to find the time for another show. I mean, it's an hour, three times a week. You're talking to a guy that used to travel 250 days out of the year, covering sports as a beat writer in the newspaper industry. A guy that had my own television show while I had my own radio show, which was two to three hours a day. Not to mention having my television show, First Take, which I've been doing now for a decade and it's been number one the whole time. So for me, it just falls in line, scheduling wise. I don't view it as being nearly as daunting as other people view it. I'm used to it.
Where it's really exciting for me, is the opportunity to step away from the sports genre, so to speak. It's not that the podcast is not going to include sports, because it will, of course. But the opportunity to talk about news, politics, current events, pop culture and entertainment, social issues, et cetera, can literally have no limits whatsoever. Because when I'm not dealing with sports, these are the kind of things that I'm always talking about with family and friends and colleagues. So the fact that I have an opportunity to do this with my own podcast, which obviously I own and I'm in control of content with, it's a breath of fresh air and it's an opportunity of a lifetime for me.
What are your priorities from a political standpoint?
Common sense. That's the best two words that I could come up with, Jack. We can't always get everything we want. One of the things that annoys the living hell out of me about Capitol Hill, is the absence of compromise. You can't get everything you want. There is no administration, there is no no governing body, there is no legislature that has ever gotten everything they want. We send people up on Capitol Hill to represent us and to work in our best interest, to make sure a level of civility exists in this nation, so we could move forward, progressively. And I don't mean progressively from a political perspective. I mean, moving forward and marching forward and making sure we don't step backwards. And to me, on far too many occasions, we've seen evidence to the contrary, as it pertains to our elected officials.
For example, if you're sitting up there and you're not addressing crime, well, what would Stephen A. talk about? You know what Stephen A. is going to talk about? The fact that I'm in California yesterday, in Los Angeles, and I'm seeing the crowds on Rodeo Drive be half to three quarters dwindled, compared to what it customarily is, because folks are hesitant to go out shopping because they're afraid of what's going to transpire when they walk out the damn store. And in some cases, the store is not letting so many people in, because of their concern about crime and who's being arrested. Are they just going to get let out of jail and things of that nature? See, the kind of things that we're talking about, where you recognize that it's affecting the everyday common woman and man, those are the things that I'm going to talk about.
"I believe that I'm a communicator... I'm not going to change."
You talked recently about how you liked hosting Jimmy Kimmel Live! because it was different than the confrontational nature of First Take. Where will this new venture land on that spectrum?
It's somewhere in between. One of the things that annoys me, is when people act as if the expectation is for you to be one-dimensional. People who are successful usually are a bit more diverse in what they practice. Jay-Z is a hip-hop mogul, but he's also a businessman. Individuals in this world, they ain't one dimensional, okay, and so for me, of course, I want to do this podcast and I want to resonate in a very profound fashion on various issues. That doesn't mean I don't know how to have a good time. It doesn't mean that I don't laugh and I'm not having a blast. It doesn't mean that I can't host a late night show, if that opportunity presented itself.
I believe that I'm a communicator. And I've been a journalist and I've been willing and fearless in tackling issues that are pertinent to everyday society. I'm not going to change.
You said recently that, in your line of work, “One word, one sentence, could cost you everything.” How does that inform your approach to going on-air?
Look, man, I've been dealing with that my entire career. I don't know if you noticed or not, First Take is live. There's not even a seven-second delay. It's live, every day, for two hours. When I'm on SportsCenter, it's live. When I'm on NBA Countdown, it's live. These are not taped episodes that I get to do. I've been doing live television for over a decade. So to me, it comes with the territory. You have a license and a responsibility to be responsible. Of course, I'm prone to make a mistake here and there. Nobody's flawless, nobody's perfect. I've made mistakes in the past. Hell, I'm going to make them again. But when you make them, own them, and make sure everyone knows your intent. And be willing to apologize when you're wrong or to explain yourself if you're wrong. I think that, by and large, when you see that, particularly in this country, it goes a very, very, very long way.
It's not the mistakes you make sometimes. It's your unwillingness to own up to it. And when you have that, that's problematic. Because it shows a lack of courage and a disingenuousness about that.
Why do you enjoy ragging on the Cowboys so much?
Because their fans are a pain in my you-know-what. I love Jerry Jones. Steven Jones and Jerry Jones have been very, very nice to me. Cowboys, I've never been a "fan" of theirs, but I loved Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman. Michael Irvin is a dear friend of mine. We go back many, many years. Prime Time Deon Sanders, dear friend of mine. Let me tell you something, they don't get on my nerves. It's those damn fans.
Because no matter what, no matter how much they stink, no matter what they're going through—your season can end in January. You could have had a 1-15 season. It can end in January at 7:00 PM eastern time. By 7:15 or 7:30, they're going to be like, "you know we going to win the Super Bowl next year, right?" This is who they are. They treat everything like it's just the gospel and their stuff. They pass gas, it's perfumed. It's who they are. They never take a moment to smell their stench. They always are superior to everybody else. That's what gets on me about Cowboy fans. It has nothing to do with the Cowboys. It has everything to do with their fans. I'm not teasing the Cowboys when they lose, I'm teasing their fans. Their fans get on my last damn nerve. And I like reminding them every time they end up falling short, because it brings pleasure to me to know that they're miserable. That's never going to change, but it's only as it pertains to the Cowboy's fans, nothing else. And it's all in fun. I don't mean anything serious about it. It's just me as a sports fan, ragging sports fans. That's all it is.
You've spoken about Colin Kaepernick's decision to protest, and the idea that he could pay a professional price for that. There are just things you have to do, professionally, to make it. And that if you choose a different path, you have to be honest with yourself and take responsibility for that. Does that date back to your time going out of contract with ESPN, and learning that you had to play by certain corporate rules to thrive?
It doesn't go back to that. It's relevant to that, but it doesn't go back to that. Here's what the relevancy is. I'm a Black man. And as a Black man, you learn from a very, very early age that when white folks catch a cold, Black folks catch pneumonia. It's always worse for us. There's always an extra layer that we have to scratch and claw and climb our way up through, to get to where we want to go. To shy away from that reality is stupid, because it's not going anywhere. It's always been the case, and it's always going to be the case. So, when I bring up, whether it's a Colin Kaepernick or anybody else, and I'm talking about the landmines you have to avoid, I'm not condemning anybody's choices. I'm simply saying, if this is what you want, that ain't going to get it done for you.
And I'm being a realist in articulating that. You being aware of it and making the decision that you want to make anyway, is your business. But to turn around and bitch and moan about what I had to say, when I've been proven correct, just simply shows that your head is in the sand. Colin Kaepernick was black balled. It's not fair, it was not right. Not only did he not violate any laws, not only did he not violate or compromise his rights as an American citizen, he violated no NFL bylaws. We all recognize that. But we also recognize that if you sue the NFL, or any corporation for that matter, tell me people who sued their corporation and then expect to get rehired by the same corporation that they sued. It doesn't work that way in the world of business. Me saying that, is highlighting it. I'm not selling out, I'm looking out.
"You wouldn't click on the television and say, who the hell is this guy? That's not how he sounds. It was just a facade. It was just an act. No, it's Stephen A. Smith."
You place a premium on honesty, and I think that's what attracts a lot of people to watching and listening to you. Do you ever feel like your desire to tell the whole truth comes up against your knowledge that you are employed in corporate America, and there are rules and consequences?
No, because I know it's about how you articulate it, not always just what you articulate. See, you can tell truth, but there's ways that you have to do it from time-to-time, depending on the platform that you have available to you. You're communicating a message, but how you communicate and the sensitivity with which you communicated, as a professional, is where the obligation kicks in for you to handle things accordingly. Once upon a time in my career, I almost lost my career. Because all I did was came out, guns blazing, figuratively speaking of course, saying whatever the hell I wanted to say, how I wanted to say it, regardless of who I was saying it to. And I encountered a lot of people not even challenging the message, but challenging how I delivered it, and in which environment I chose to do so. And so as a result of that, I really educated myself. Learning when, where, and how to articulate certain messages without cheating the audience, from giving them the real, per se.
Your voice and your delivery have really shaped your persona. Was that just always the way that you've talked to friends and family, or did you start to craft a persona for television?
Hey Jack, how long have you been talking to me?
Yeah, you make a good point.
Do I sound any different than I sound on television? At all? This is how I talk. Michael Jordan once came up to me, after 2001 or 2002. And he had a problem with some of the criticism I was giving him at the time. His problem wasn't with my information. He said, "Man, it's the way you said it." And I said, Michael, can I have a job? He's like, "What are we talking about?" I said, can I have a job? I mean, my God, this is the way I talk. You have spoken to me before. He broke out and started laughing. He said, "That's true, that's true." I said, this is how I talk. What you want me to do? Dial it back a thousand percent, speak a mumble like Shaq?
I'm talking to my sister about a piece of lasagna that she made for me. And she's trying to master how my mother, God rest her soul, used to cook us our beef patties, our West Indian beef patties. I said, “Girl, it ain't mama.”
You can talk to my college teammates, you can talk to my childhood buddy, it doesn't matter. That's how I talk. What happens is that usually, people went to school and they developed a trade and they were professionalized, for lack of a better word, and seasoned for the cameras. Me, I never had the luxury of doing that. Because I never had that television training, my information and my ability to articulate it, was my strength. And what did I do? I relied on how I normally do stuff because I knew people could trust that to be delivered all the time. You wouldn't click on the television and say, who the hell is this guy? That's not how he sounds. It was just a facade. It was just an act. No, it's Stephen A. Smith. That is who I am. Sometimes the volume’s higher, sometimes the volume is lower, but how I am, is how I am. Period.
When did you decide to use your middle initial professionally, in your byline?
That's an easy answer. I started using it when I was writing for the News August, which was the school newspaper at Winston Salem State University. I got left back when I was younger, because I had a first grade reading level in the fourth grade and I had undiagnosed dyslexia. And my mother's faith in me helped propel me to get me better. Of course, my sister Linda, my childhood buddy Ronnie, his big brother Tigger, they taught me how to read and write. But my mother was dogged in her support of me. She is the greatest human being, she's the greatest woman I've ever known, and I miss her every day.
And so, long before she passed away, I was in school—and imagine, Jack, going from getting left back in the fourth grade because you had a first grade reading level, to ultimately being a professional journalist. It's not like I became a professional athlete or something like that. The very thing that I had a disability in is the very thing I overcame and turned into a professional career for myself. And it was a tribute to my mother. And since my mother had named me, obviously, Stephen Anthony Smith, and I hated my name, Stephen and how it was spelled coming up, because she would always call me Stephen when she got mad at me. As a tribute to her, I said, Stephen A. Smith. It was a tribute to my mother, that's how the byline came about.
Jack Holmes is a senior staff writer at Esquire, where he covers politics and sports. He also hosts Useful Context, a video series.